December 10 2012
December 10, 2012
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PERSON COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS DECEMBER 10, 2012
MEMBERS PRESENT OTHERS PRESENT
Jimmy B. Clayton Heidi York, County Manager
Kyle W. Puryear Sybil Tate, Assistant County Manager
B. Ray Jeffers Brenda B. Reaves, Clerk to the Board
Frances P. Blalock Angie Warren, Human Resources Director
David Newell, Sr.
The Board of Commissioners for the County of Person, North Carolina, met in
recessed session for a special called meeting on Monday, December 10, 2012 at 5:00 pm
in the FEMA room at the Human Services Building for the purpose to meet jointly with
the Board of Health and the Department of Social Services (DSS) Board. The meeting
was facilitated by UNC School of Government representatives for the group to discuss
options related to consolidating human services.
Chairman Clayton called the meeting to order at 5:04 pm.
Person County participants:
Jimmy Clayton – Chair, Board of Commissioners
Ray Jeffers – Vice Chair, Board of Commissioners and Commissioner
Representative on the DSS Board
Commissioner Frances Blalock, Board of Health Member (Commissioner
Representative)
Commissioner David Newell
Commissioner Kyle Puryear
Brenda Reaves – Clerk to the Board of Commissioners
Heidi York – County Manager
Sybil Tate – Assistant County Manager
Angie Warren – Human Resources Director
Steven Bailey – Chair, Board of Health
Claudia Berryhill – Member, Board of Health
Jack Hester – Member, Board of Health
Jeff Noblett – Member, Board of Health
Doris Pillow – Member, Board of Health
Janet Clayton – Director, Health Department
Angeline Brown – Chair, Social Services Board
Dolly Denton – Member, Social Services Board
Margaret Jones – Member, Social Services Board
Carlton Paylor – Interim Director, Department of Social Services
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UNC School of Government participants:
David Brown – Director, Applied Public Policy Initiative
Margaret Henderson – Facilitator
Jill Moore – Associate Professor of Public Law and Government
Aimee Wall – Associate Professor of Public Law and Government
Introduction and Expectations:
Ms. Wall introduced herself and the rest of the UNC School of Government
(SOG) team, including Margaret Henderson, Jill Moore, and David Brown. Ms. Wall
explained that she and others at SOG have been tracking a developing issue over the
course of the past year—namely, how are human services agencies and their governing
boards structured in North Carolina’s counties? How are they presently organized, and
what has changed in light of the recent passage of House Bill 438? This would be the
topic of the evening’s facilitated discussion, led by Ms. Henderson and informed by Ms.
Wall and Ms. Moore. Ms. Wall emphasized that SOG staff are participating as educators
in the interest of informed debate; they have no stake in whether or not Person County
decides to implement changes to its human services.
To begin the discussion, Ms. Henderson asked Person County participants to
introduce themselves and to each offer at least one value or process that the group should
honor. The group suggested the following:
We have two good boards. (Commissioner Puryear)
Don’t change the things that are working now. (Mr. Hester)
No news is good news—community seems satisfied with services. (Chairman
Clayton)
Citizen participation and input on boards. (Ms. Reaves)
Good staff who create positive first impressions. (Ms. Tate)
Advocacy from boards is an asset in the community. (Vice Chairman Jeffers)
Perfect score on accreditation. (Mr. Noblett)
Departments work well together as currently configured. (Ms. Clayton)
Positive communication between department heads. (Ms. Warren)
Keep the focus on Person County, not a wider region; Health and Department of
Social Services (DSS) boards provide a political buffer for the Board of County
Commissioners (BOCC), but BOCC has the last word. (Ms. Berryhill)
What we have works well, so there’s no reason to change. (Commissioner
Blalock)
Good customer service and working environment. (Mr. Paylor)
Quality staff and relationships with directors. (Ms. York)
Working relationship between directors and staff should remain as open as
possible. (Ms. Brown)
Continuing citizen participation and involvement; mandated professions on the
Board of Health brings together more diverse perspectives and professional
expertise. (Mr. Bailey)
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Discussion of County Options:
Ms. Moore gave a presentation entitled “Local Human Services Organization and
Governance”:
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Ms. Moore summarized that no counties are implementing Option 1 noting that Wake,
Buncombe, and Edgecombe are implementing Option 2; the latter two counties have
pursued this change since the passage of House Bill 438. Bladen, Brunswick,
Mecklenburg, and Montgomery are implementing Option 3; all but Mecklenburg has
made this change since the passage of House Bill 438 with many more counties,
including Person, are evaluating their options.
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Ms. York explained that the county’s Health and DSS directors each report to
their respective boards. As the county manager, she does not supervise either director.
Chairman Clayton added that he likewise has no direct authority over these positions;
disputes are resolved by the State Personnel Board.
Ms. York said that confusion from employees has driven management to explore
alternatives for change. One such alternative is to remove Health and DSS employees
from State Personnel Act (SPA) jurisdiction, in favor of having them governed by the
county’s personnel policies. Commissioner Newell asked if SPA policies are different
from Person County’s. Ms. Warren affirmed that there are important differences: for
example, county personnel grievances stop with the employee’s manager, while SPA
personnel grievances are elevated to the appropriate director and ultimately to the state.
In general, there is a greater state role with SPA employees.
Ms. Moore explained that under Option 1, the BOCC is the governing board for
both Health and DSS. Those departments’ employees remain under the SPA’s
jurisdiction because there is no consolidation; by default, state law prescribes that Health
and DSS employees are governed by the SPA. Under Options 2 and 3, the Health and/or
DSS departments or other agencies are combined into a consolidated human services
agency (CHSA), which may be governed by a newly appointed board (Option 2) or
directly by the BOCC (Option 3). After consolidation, Health and DSS employees are
removed from the SPA’s jurisdiction and put under county personnel policies unless the
BOCC affirmatively acts to keep them under the SPA. The default is for CHSA
employees to go under county policies, but the law gives the BOCC the option to elect to
keep them under the SPA.
Ms. Wall explained that Options 1 and 3 require the appointment of a Public
Health advisory committee while Option 2 does not, and none of the three options
requires the appointment of a DSS advisory committee. Ms. Wall speculated that the
reason for this might be that NC law already contains a specific list of required positions
the legislature could point to for existing Health boards, but no similar language for
existing DSS boards.
Ms. Moore said that if the BOCC assumes the Board of Health’s duties (Option 1)
or the Consolidated Human Services Board’s duties (Option 3), the commissioners also
assume responsibility for requirements such as accreditation.
What is a human services agency? Vice Chairman Jeffers described this as “the
great unanswered question.” Under the new law, could Person County combine DSS with
its Veterans agency, and leave the Board of Health out of this consolidated arrangement?
If so, could it then remove DSS employees from SPA jurisdiction? Ms. Moore affirmed
that this is an option under the new law.
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Ms. Moore informed the group that no matter what agencies they may
consolidate, the composition of the Consolidated Human Services Board remains the
same. For example, the board must include both a psychologist and a psychiatrist who
must be county residents. Also, although a normal board member’s term is 4 years, the
BOCC could appoint some members of the initial consolidated board to 2-year terms to
create a staggered membership and ensure some continuity from one appointment cycle
to the next.
Vice Chairman Jeffers noted that if the BOCC appoints a consolidated board
(Option 2), the Board of Health loses very little of its powers and authorities. Ms. Moore
agreed, except that unlike the current Health board, the consolidated board would not
appoint the Health Director. Instead, the County Manager would hire the director with the
advice and consent of the consolidated board.
Chairman Clayton announced a brief break at 6:22 pm. The meeting reconvened
at 6:34 pm.
Discussion of Public Health Data:
Ms. Wall circulated a handout entitled “Person County Public Health Data.”. She
explained that research identifies population as a driver of lower per-capita public health
costs and FTEs, presumably because of economies of scale, and that SOG’s findings
were consistent with this. For the purposes of this analysis, Person was grouped with 27
other counties in the “low population” cohort.
Ms. Clayton explained that Home Health and Hospice is included in the “Other
Revenues” bar in the chart displaying expenditures by funding source for fiscal year
2010.
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Human Services Changes: Catalysts, Context, and Concerns:
Vice Chairman Jeffers identified a key frustration for the county under its current
human services arrangement with the state: the county cannot hire a DSS director that
does not meet the exact state standards, in spite of the fact that Person County provides
some of the funding for DSS. Ms. York concurred, explaining that Mr. Paylor had been
the “Interim” DSS Director for more than 2 years. She said that the county’s largest
department should have a permanent director, but the county is unable to give Mr. Paylor
this designation before he meets all of the state’s requirements (which he is in the process
of fulfilling). If Person County consolidated DSS with another human services agency, it
could remove DSS employees from SPA jurisdiction and thus acquire the ability to set its
own qualifications for the position.
Aside from the ability to remove staff from SPA jurisdiction, Ms. Henderson
asked participants whether they saw other advantages (or disadvantages) arising from
changes in its human services structure. She encouraged the group to be clear about what
could be gained and what could be lost in any change. For example, she noted that it
could become more difficult to recruit senior officials and staff from counties where
employees remain under the SPA. Ms. Clayton said that removing employees from SPA
would be a benefit for managers, because it would mean that state approval would no
longer be required for position reclassification, but the move could be detrimental for
employees, because the SPA is more protective and gives employees a property right in
their jobs. Ms. York noted that the county’s other 280 employees do not enjoy this right,
and they also differ from Health and DSS employees in that their leadership serves at the
pleasure of the BOCC. Ms. Berryhill agreed with the notion that all county employees
should be treated equally.
Continuing the discussion of advantages and disadvantages, Ms. Warren
identified a possible efficiency gain through the elimination of human resources
responsibilities in Person’s DSS and Health departments, as those duties would be
consolidated in her department for all county employees. However, she recognized that
Human Resources could face the need to augment its staff to handle the increased
workload. Turning to the subject of boards, Commissioner Puryear observed that smaller
boards operate more efficiently, and it is sometimes hard to get everyone to show up.
Chairman Clayton provided important context for the discussion of personnel
status and why Health and DSS employees have traditionally been considered SPA
employees. He explained that in the 1950s the state first required its counties to provide
Health and DSS services to their citizens. Because some county oficials did not support
the new requirement, the state protected its Health and DSS employees from local control
and the potential for harassment or meddling this could bring. It also seemed wise to
create a buffer between those service providers and local BOCCs in order to allow space
for politically or socially sensitive decisions.
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Commissioner Newell asked who advocated for the new legislation. Ms. Wall
replied that the NC Association of County Commissioners was its primary advocate. Vice
Chairman Jeffers said that smaller counties sought changes in human services
organization and governance because they wanted the same flexibility that the largest
counties already had. Counties thus lobbied the General Assembly for the ability to
explore efficiencies in these areas, which required the legislature to remove the
population threshold it had previously established. Vice Chairman Jeffers explained that
the initiative arose out of the association’s legislative goals process. As the association’s
president-elect, he encouraged county participants to identify “what isn’t working” in
their departments and discuss these matters with him to determine whether the
association should pursue a legislative solution.
Ms. Wall shared an example from Guilford County’s experience. Although the
state had deemed the county’s personnel policies to be “substantially equivalent” in all
six of the existing areas, county commissioners decided to leave Guilford’s employees
under the SPA because they wanted to retain access to the free technical assistance
provided by the state’s Office of State Personnel (OSP). Ms. Wall noted, however, that
FTEs in that OSP group had been reduced over the past several years from 9 to 1.5.
Ms. Wall explained that the concept of “substantial equivalence” comes into play
only if a county keeps its employees under SPA. If a county consolidates two or more
human services agencies, employees may be placed under the county’s personnel
policies, and the substantial equivalence of those policies is no longer relevant.
Mr. Bailey said he understood that retirement policies would not change for
employees moved from SPA to Person County’s personnel system. He asked whether the
same would be true for leave—would employees retain their per-paycheck accrual rates
and accumulated totals? Mr. Paylor noted more information is needed from the OSP
related to the leave transition for employees. The SOG representatives noted they would
follow up with an SPA specialist and report back to Person County.
Mr. Hester asked about potential consequences if the county could not recruit a
psychiatrist to serve on its Consolidated Human Services Board. Ms. Wall said that the
body would still be considered a governing board. When asked how many vacancies
could exist at any one time, Ms. Moore stated that this is an unanswered question under
existing law, but it is likely that at least a majority of the positions would need to be filled
in order for the board to be functional. Ms. Wall noted that DSS boards at times operate
for months with selected vacancies.
Participants discussed other personnel models in the county. These include the
Sheriff’s and Registrar’s offices, which have elected leaders and at-will employees. In
addition, the ABC Board has two BOCC-appointed members, but its employees have a
separate retirement system and are not really county personnel.
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Participants asked about the permanence of any human services changes the
BOCC may undertake. SOG staff explained that changes could be re-considered as soon
as the next BOCC meeting. This could involve separating consolidated departments, re-
creating separate boards, and/or returning Health and DSS employees to SPA
jurisdiction.
Next Steps and Follow-ups:
Ms. York said that her impression from talks with the BOCC is that
commissioners have no interest in becoming a governing board. So the choice seems to
be between (a) retaining separate human services agencies and their respective boards,
i.e., the status quo; and (b) consolidating certain agencies and governing them with a
consolidated board, i.e., Option 2.
Ms. York said that she, Ms. Clayton, and Mr. Carlton would talk to each of their
respective boards about the county’s options and then report back. Vice Chairman Jeffers
asked SOG staff to stand by while the county deliberates and determines whether further
SOG assistance is needed.
As a follow-up, participants wanted to know more about the potential transition
away from SPA, specifically the possibility of current SPA employees losing their leave
if moved under the county’s personnel system. As noted above, the SOG representatives
will follow up with an SPA specialist and will report back.
Evaluation of the Meeting:
Like Dislike/Proposed Change
In-person presentation easier to digest than
webinar
None
Informed presenters brought needed
information into the room
SOG cleared up the “fear factor” around
the unknown
All NC counties have the same options
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ADJOURNMENT:
A motion was made by Vice Chairman Jeffers, seconded by Commissioner
Blalock, and carried 5-0 to adjourn the meeting at 7:21 pm.
_____________________________ ______________________________
Brenda B. Reaves Jimmy B. Clayton
Clerk to the Board Chairman
Note: UNC School of Government representatives contributed to the preparation of the
minutes.